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Victims?!? I think most people in the Eastern Block knew that it is not appropriate to engage in extortion and murder. No one held a gun to this people's heads forcing them to become criminals. They have made a choice to become criminals because they wanted wealth and would stop at nothign to obtain it. Sasha

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The Vors (a criminal gang that formed in the Gulag from Stalin's deportations and imprisonments) did not have a free will choice of whether to be criminals or not. They were merely trying to survive. They were forced to be criminals. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Are you angry that others disappoint you? remember you cannot depend upon yourself.
-Benjamin Franklin

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Originally posted by mestiza:

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Victims?!? I think most people in the Eastern Block knew that it is not appropriate to engage in extortion and murder. No one held a gun to this people's heads forcing them to become criminals. They have made a choice to become criminals because they wanted wealth and would stop at nothign to obtain it. Sasha

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The Vors (a criminal gang that formed in the Gulag from Stalin's deportations and imprisonments) did not have a free will choice of whether to be criminals or not. They were merely trying to survive. They were forced to be criminals. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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I disagree. If you read books about GULAG, you will find out that there were two main groups of prisoners: political prisoners (those arrested under article 58 of the Soviet criminal code), and the common criminals. The criminals were continuously terrorizing the political prisoners taking away their belongings, etc. According to memoirs, criminals were also getting a better treatment. In fact, during the construction of the Belomorcanal the criminals were formed into a guard for the political prisoners who were doing all the work. Also, according to memoirs those put in gulag for being "enemies of the people" have returned to normal lives after their release. People who got into GULAG for being theives in the first place continued to commit crimes after getting out. Most of the literature I base my opinion on is in Russian, however, you may read "GULAG Archipelago" by Solzhenytsyn. He describes the same thing. Sasha

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Sasha

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Too many people debate as if the point is to show who is smarter, rather than which conclusion is correct.

The Vors as you call them existed before Stalin and he has nothing to do with them.

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

mestiza, living by the book. . . How easy is it for you to imagine a university professor or a career military officer who were declared "enemies of the people", becoming a, what you call them the Vors? Эх, из профессуры да в урки. . .

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Go back to bed America, your government is in control. Bill Hicks

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mestiza, living by the book. . . How easy is it for you to imagine a university professor or a career military officer who were declared "enemies of the people", becoming a, what you call them the Vors? Эх, из профессуры да в урки

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Organized crime does involve university professors and career military officers which just goes to show my point. The Soviet system encouraged criminal behavior. But organized crime is not limited to professors and career military personal. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Are you angry that others disappoint you? remember you cannot depend upon yourself.
-Benjamin Franklin

To put it simple, it is my opinion that the origins of most organized crime in Eurasia came as a result of the Soviet system. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Are you angry that others disappoint you? remember you cannot depend upon yourself.
-Benjamin Franklin

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Originally posted by mestiza: To put it simple, it is my opinion that the origins of most organized crime in Eurasia came as a result of the Soviet system. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Yes, of course. You read a single book by a Western author, who represents himself as a Sovietologist, and now you are Mr. Knowitall. Pathetic.

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Go back to bed America, your government is in control. Bill Hicks

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And american criminals were all imported from eastern europe. Ye, right.

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

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And american criminals were all imported from eastern europe. Ye, right.

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Well, KGB, you are more than welcome to file a lawsuit if you think you are being profiled. Maybe the judge will reward you millions of dollars. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Are you angry that others disappoint you? remember you cannot depend upon yourself.
-Benjamin Franklin

What does profiling has to do with anything we talked here ?

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

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What does profiling has to do with anything we talked here ?

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Profiling is where somebody or an organization single out a particular group of people for unfair, sterotypical treatment. A good example is your statement where you said: "And american criminals were all imported from eastern europe. Ye, right." This is a good example of profiling all East Europeans as criminals or assuming that just because somebody is from Eastern Europe they could be a criminal. This is illegal and you could sue for somebody who writes a book or practices such behavior. However, you will need evidence to back it up and if your lawsuit isn't sucessful, they could counter sue you for millions of dollars for defaming their character in your original lawsuit as somebody who profiles others. That's how the legal system is. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Are you angry that others disappoint you? remember you cannot depend upon yourself.
-Benjamin Franklin

Or better yet... here is another good example for lawsuits. Their was this fat guy who was called fat by another person. Since their were other people around who heard the one guy call the fat guy fat.... the fat guy was able to sucessfully sue him for slander under Defamation of Character. The fat guy won the lawsuit against the person who called him fat. Their are two forms of Defamation of Character, slander and libel. Slander is spoken while libel is written. But me personally, I never had much respect for people who have thin skins and would sue over something like that because excessive lawsuits create a paranoid environment which is not healthy. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Are you angry that others disappoint you? remember you cannot depend upon yourself.
-Benjamin Franklin

BOP B 3AKOHE

Вчера наконец-то впервые спал с девушкой. Ну и ничего в этом особенного нет. Теплее, конечно, но уж очень тесно.

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Sic semper tyrannis
~War is Peace~Freedom is Slavery~Ignorance is Strength~ George Orwell "1984"

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BOP B 3AKOHE

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Know the system and you won't be a victim of a thief that is inside the law . Knowing the system and how to play it is your first line of defense. Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.

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Are you angry that others disappoint you? remember you cannot depend upon yourself.
-Benjamin Franklin

Enough, mestiza. . . It is becoming clear that you know very little of the phenomenon.

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Go back to bed America, your government is in control. Bill Hicks

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