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Originally posted by IntensityInsanity: I wonder... There's been several instances where I've had political conversations with Europeans. What I've noticed is that non-US people have no way of possibly following politics on the level that we follow it here (we = people like Anton, myself, Raspisdaichik, Egor, Snake, KGB, etc.). In Europe, they usually follow some very superficial news coverage. There's no way a European can hold his own in a heavy political debate about US issues. Likewise, I realize that there's no way I can really understand Russian politics while I am living here. Anything I do know is on a very superficial level. Therefore, if you all haven't noticed, I don't participate in topics about Russian business/politics. I don't know enough, so I keep my mouth shut. What I find stunning is that all of you, who live here in the US, seem to debate and argue as if you guys are living there. Surely there's no way for you to understand Russian politics on the same level as you understand US politics, considering that you live in the US. Now, I know that I've just hurt someone's pride with this post (though that was not my intention), but I really do want to know - do you all think you guys understand Russian politics on such a deep level? Is it even possible to be an 'expert' on Russian politics while living in the US? (of course, we could exclude political science professors specializing in Russian politics...I'm talking about the average Joe - like all of us here.)

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It just depends on how interested the person is, and how much reading/thinking/communicating there with the people in the region in question. Most russians never stop reading russian media, watch russian TV channels, read russian forums, etc. Where do you think we get russian articles that get posted here? This is what a lot of people actually read instead of CNN. I try to do both, but it is not easy :) On this particular topic (Ukrainian politics of the last couple of years), i have probably spent more time reading forums and commentary than on american politics.. And I would add one thing.. there is an element of seeing something from a distance that opens up a crucial element of objectivity which is unavailable when you are there. We may not know the names of all the Rada (congress) members, but we can see affiliations, alliences, alteriror motives, and such much clearer. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

you should just let it go... there is nothing to argue about.. i have an opinion based on my life in ukraine.. visits to russia, europe.. conversations and freindships with russians/europeans/ukrainians... based on history... you, probably have a difefrent opinion... ps one little point about kiev, in every "free" election, kiev voted for the forces that want to integrate ukraine with europe... i don't think you'll find a single ruussian city where majority want to be part of europe.. russians still think that they are have their own special way...

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Originally posted by Egor: I would understand if you came from some zakarpat'e.. they may be more polish-influenced.. Which are STILL closer to Russia than to European mentality. But you are from Kiev.. so elaborate... what differences? Between Kiev, and a russian city of similar size. In terms of culture. I don't even know if you are trying to be funny or are serious.. Maybe I should just let this go :)

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lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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lyosha
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What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

agree...

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Originally posted by Egor: It just depends on how interested the person is, and how much reading/thinking/communicating there with the people in the region in question. Most russians never stop reading russian media, watch russian TV channels, read russian forums, etc. Where do you think we get russian articles that get posted here? This is what a lot of people actually read instead of CNN. I try to do both, but it is not easy :) On this particular topic (Ukrainian politics of the last couple of years), i have probably spent more time reading forums and commentary than on american politics.. And I would add one thing.. there is an element of seeing something from a distance that opens up a crucial element of objectivity which is unavailable when you are there. We may not know the names of all the Rada (congress) members, but we can see affiliations, alliences, alteriror motives, and such much clearer. ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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lyosha
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What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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Originally posted by snake: kiev voted for the forces that want to integrate ukraine with europe...

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got a link? ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

too lazy to look.. have to leave.. but look at the last presidential and rada elections: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_parliamentary_election,_2006

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Originally posted by Egor:

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Originally posted by snake: kiev voted for the forces that want to integrate ukraine with europe...

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got a link? ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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lyosha
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What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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Originally posted by Egor: It just depends on how interested the person is, and how much reading/thinking/communicating there with the people in the region in question. Most russians never stop reading russian media, watch russian TV channels, read russian forums, etc. Where do you think we get russian articles that get posted here? This is what a lot of people actually read instead of CNN. I try to do both, but it is not easy :) On this particular topic (Ukrainian politics of the last couple of years), i have probably spent more time reading forums and commentary than on american politics.. And I would add one thing.. there is an element of seeing something from a distance that opens up a crucial element of objectivity which is unavailable when you are there. We may not know the names of all the Rada (congress) members, but we can see affiliations, alliences, alteriror motives, and such much clearer.

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Thanks for your response. I don't read Russian so well, so there's virtually no way for me to follow Russian politics (certainly not by reading Western media). But aside even from that, the point is that I've been following US politics for very many years. To jump into any other country's politics and understand it deeply is far beyond me - I'd be way behind :)

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Originally posted by IntensityInsanity:

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Originally posted by Egor: It just depends on how interested the person is, and how much reading/thinking/communicating there with the people in the region in question. Most russians never stop reading russian media, watch russian TV channels, read russian forums, etc. Where do you think we get russian articles that get posted here? This is what a lot of people actually read instead of CNN. I try to do both, but it is not easy :) On this particular topic (Ukrainian politics of the last couple of years), i have probably spent more time reading forums and commentary than on american politics.. And I would add one thing.. there is an element of seeing something from a distance that opens up a crucial element of objectivity which is unavailable when you are there. We may not know the names of all the Rada (congress) members, but we can see affiliations, alliences, alteriror motives, and such much clearer.

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Thanks for your response. I don't read Russian so well, so there's virtually no way for me to follow Russian politics (certainly not by reading Western media). But aside even from that, the point is that I've been following US politics for very many years. To jump into any other country's politics and understand it deeply is far beyond me - I'd be way behind :)

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My parents actually get their american news (which they are very interested in) from russian sources :) ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

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Originally posted by snake: too lazy to look.. have to leave.. but look at the last presidential and rada elections: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_presidential_election,_2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_parliamentary_election,_2006

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Right, but you are equating votes for Yushenko, Timoshenko as a vote to join EU? I understand the reaoning but it's a leap, considering that national polls about EU do not correspond to election results. Because different people vote for different reasons.. From Feb 15 poll: 42.6 per cent of Ukrainians support the country's accession to the European Union 19.2 per cent supported the entry into NATO http://www.russiablog.org/2006/02/american_response_to_upcoming.html You can pretty easily guess how these fugures are affected in rural vs urban, russian speaking vs. ukrainian speaking.. You can also guess how these numbers have dropped since they were taken. If you can find counter info I would be interested. Maybe in 2004 the majority supported EU entry? Or in 1990? ________________________________________ "не нужно навязывать себе своё мнение" -anonymous

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"Я это понимаю на рациональном уровне, но не могу принять на эмоциональном" --Бизнесмен Борис Березовский

unbelievable....

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

Heck, I've lived in the US all my life and I still don't necessarily have a "deep understanding" of American politics. I think it's possible to live in a particular nation and still not understand or know everything about that particular nation's politics. What I do know, is that I tend to vote republican because they have better leadership traits, though they do take positions I disagree with on certain issues. They tend to be able to make decisions decisively and stick with them. Where the democrats, they take positions that I agree with on certain issues, but seem incapable of decisive decision making. They can't seem to make a decision. It's always better to make the wrong decision than no decision. That's why I vote republican.

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Republicans or Democrats ,,, they're all getting $$$ paid by the same people, so at the end the Ideas of the people with money getting implemented ... *Good*Boy*

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*Good*Boy*

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just remember.. before you insult someone.. walk a mile in their shoes.. that way you're a mile away.. and you have their shoes
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Originally posted by snake: there is nothing to argue about.. i have an opinion based on my life in ukraine.. visits to russia, europe.. conversations and freindships with russians/europeans/ukrainians... based on history...

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Gee, man.. You sound like one of those Ukrainian nationalists. Maybe you should move back to Ukraine, help the democracy and join the nazi party

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Самый крупный в Европе митинг в поддержку Израиля ------------------------------------ http://www.mignews.com.ua/articles/216908.html lyosha ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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lyosha
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What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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Originally posted by Meister13: Heck, I've lived in the US all my life and I still don't necessarily have a "deep understanding" of American politics. I think it's possible to live in a particular nation and still not understand or know everything about that particular nation's politics. What I do know, is that I tend to vote republican because they have better leadership traits, though they do take positions I disagree with on certain issues. They tend to be able to make decisions decisively and stick with them. Where the democrats, they take positions that I agree with on certain issues, but seem incapable of decisive decision making. They can't seem to make a decision. It's always better to make the wrong decision than no decision. That's why I vote republican.

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whether you realize this or not, your statement actually hurts the republican party.

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советская империя утратила свой стиль раньше, чем потеряла свою власть

Mentality, destiny, failure of western strategy… Ukrainians bought a freezer, it doesn’t work and people like Anton are saying it’s because the electricity flows differently in Ukraine then in the rest of the world… What is a revolution? A fundamental change in society comparable to Russia 1917, France 1795, British Colonies 1775. It’s not what happened in Ukraine even though people call it revolution. Revolutions are not done by hanging flags and wearing scarves, it’s done by hanging people and wearing ammo belts. What happened in Ukraine was a soft revolution, a change of elites in power, the kind of revolution that happens here every time parties in power switch. What did you expect Anton? That the Dnieper will change its course and flow with liquid justice instead of water? That pineapples and peaches will grow on trees and government offices will overflow with prosperity and fairness? Russia is screwed big time. By not allowing soft revolutions at regular intervals it is setting itself for a hard one, when heads will roll like in the good old days. Jedem Das Seine.

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Jedem Das Seine.