There you go, good answer. ~Mr.T.~

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Originally posted by Alex: Hey here is another one :) There is only 1 black chess grandmaster in the world, if I remember correctly. Just ONE, imagine that :) And I bet he is a crappy one, too (and probably plays only with black pieces, too) :)))) ~Mr.T.~

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Alex, I would like to provide more detail about this black grandmaster. His name is Maurice Ashley. Though living in the US, he was born in Jamaice, so he is not even an American (US) black. His current FIDE rating is 2465, which is not very high for a grandmaster. To make this more clear, to become a grandmaster, one must have a minimum rating of 2500. So apparently he did reach 2500+ at one point when he become a grandmaster but he was never able to remain at that level. To give you an idea of his rating in respect to the rest of the playing field, according to FIDE's rankings (www.fide.com) his world rank is 899 and his rank within the US is 39. Obviously you can see that there are many international masters who are rated higher than this grandmaster. To give you more personal detail on this: During 2001, for about 8 months I had a roommate whose name is Enrico Sevillano (who is an International Master, and who is by the way rated higher than Maurice Ashley). Being an international master who plays with the big players in various tournaments, round robins, etc., he told me an interesting story about Ashley. To become grandmaster, one must earn a set of GM norms. When Ashley was still an IM and only needed one more GM norm (I think you need total of 3 to become GM), the US Chess Federation created a special tournament to give Ashley an opportunity to earn his 3rd and final GM norm, and also raise his FIDE rating to the minimum 2500. In this tournament, Ashley played well, and earned that final GM norm, whereby also raising his rating to near-minimum (something like 2504). My roommate, Enrico, told me that many of the players in this special round robin tournament purposely lost their games to him because there was a clear agenda to create the first 'african american' grandmaster. Enrico knew this, because he is friends with many of those players. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Truisms: He who laughs last, thinks slowest. A day without sunshine is like, well, night. When you go into court, you are putting yourself in the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

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Originally posted by Alex: Well, that's a correct conclusion about black women. White women, however, do compete with men in chess, and very successfully - Judit Polgar, others. They are active in science - Sofya Kovalevskaya, and a million others. There are many women who are successful lawyers, doctors, businesswomen, artists, etc. Smart and successful white women rule! Again, there are also many intelligent and successful black women, and they rule too! But you can count them on your fingers. Most of the sistas are ghetto. ~Mr.T.~

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good points. Judith Polgar has proven that white women can certainly compete with men in chess. only reason there are not so many is because in world culture girls are not pushed to be good at stuff like chess. they are taught to play with dolls, etc. when i have kids and if i have daughters, i am going to teach them chess and make them chess monsters. i will create my own little polgar daughters LOL.. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Truisms: He who laughs last, thinks slowest. A day without sunshine is like, well, night. When you go into court, you are putting yourself in the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

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Good stuff on the Maurice guy. Hehe, it's about how I imagined it. White people are too kind and good in nature, and the crooked blacks know this and abuse our weaknesses. Heh, it's like in downtown, on my way from the parking lot to the university building I get approached by at least 3 bums. These nasty retards just stand in your way and strech their filthy hands to touch you. First I just politely ignored them, and they often followed along mumbling some shit, now I just straight tell them to f**k off and it works right away. That's how they need to be treated, that's the language they understand. If we could apply the same firm attitude in other areas, it would only do good to the country, it's progress won't be constantly hindered by these stupid quotas and double standards. ~Mr.T.~

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Sorry of topic.. Viasnilos', chto igra v shahmati ne ochen sviazana s umstvennimi sposobnosiatmi, bolshe s kolichestvom raz povtoreniy. Chem bolshe trenirueshsia - tem luche igraesh...Chelovek, ne obladaushiy vidaushimisia ili srednimi umstvennimi sposobnostiami mozhet bit prekrasnim igrokom v shahmati. Ne mogu ukazat istochnik, no naskolko ya pomnu on vnushal doverie. "Жизнь - это смертельная болезнь, передающаяся половым путем" - Виктория Токарева

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- Доктор, я жить буду?

- А смысл ?

VIV

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Originally posted by Viktory L: Sorry of topic.. Viasnilos', chto igra v shahmati ne ochen sviazana s umstvennimi sposobnosiatmi, bolshe s kolichestvom raz povtoreniy. Chem bolshe trenirueshsia - tem luche igraesh... Ne mogu ukazat istochnik, no naskolko ya pomnu on vnushal doverie. "Жизнь - это смертельная болезнь, передающаяся половым путем" - Виктория Токарева

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The point is not that chess may or may not have a direct correlation to intelligence. The point that Alex was making is that besides sports, and so called 'music' of rap and hip hop, blacks do not have any achievements to represent them in other areas where some performance of the mind is required. Despite the fact that the number of blacks in the world may be equal to or even more than whites in this world. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Truisms: He who laughs last, thinks slowest. A day without sunshine is like, well, night. When you go into court, you are putting yourself in the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

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Originally posted by Viktory L: Chelovek, ne obladaushiy vidaushimisia ili srednimi umstvennimi sposobnostiami mozhet bit prekrasnim igrokom v shahmati.

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Please name at least one player, who is in top 100 in the world who is known to be stupid. After all, you do want to support your argument with some data, don't you? Or like Libra do you like to just say things which sound 'corrent' and 'nice'? IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Truisms: He who laughs last, thinks slowest. A day without sunshine is like, well, night. When you go into court, you are putting yourself in the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

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II am not going to argue with you. I told you what I read, first of all. Second, there are many more excellent chess players then just in that top 100. To get on top requires not just amount of repetitions. There are money, intelligence, and big game hehind the scene... "Жизнь - это смертельная болезнь, передающаяся половым путем" - Виктория Токарева

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- Доктор, я жить буду?

- А смысл ?

VIV

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Originally posted by Viktory L: II am not going to argue with you. I told you what I read, first of all. Second, there are many more excellent chess players then just in that top 100. To get on top requires not just amount of repetitions. There are money, intelligence, and big game hehind the scene... "Жизнь - это смертельная болезнь, передающаяся половым путем" - Виктория Токарева

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you obviously do not know much about the sport of chess. Ok, I'll make it easier for you. Can you name someone who is stupid that is in top 1000? (for reference purposes, you can obtain the top 1000, or even top 20,000 list by going to www.fide.com) You see, it is correct that an idiot without talent could become a chess master with a lot of hard work. But this idiot without talent will never become a grandmaster. To be Grandmaster doesn't even mean guaranteed top 300. Obviously, to become one of the top 100 it requires high intelligence, in addition to talent, hard work, etc. The original point I was trying to make was that chess is under the catagory of achievement using one's brain, as opposed to something like achievement in rap or sports or porn star. Hence, it seemed to me that you were trying to make some sort of garbled counter-argument against this, and I have disproven your attempt at doing so. If you weren't making a counter-argument, then I don't understand what the point of your post was in regard to the current discussion. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Truisms: He who laughs last, thinks slowest. A day without sunshine is like, well, night. When you go into court, you are putting yourself in the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

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II, it is obvious to me, you want to have fight with somebody ) Not me, sorry. I'm curious of YOUR definitions stupid person and smart person. Note: ONE person, not the whole race.

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Originally posted by IntensityInsanity:

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Originally posted by Viktory L: II am not going to argue with you. I told you what I read, first of all. Second, there are many more excellent chess players then just in that top 100. To get on top requires not just amount of repetitions. There are money, intelligence, and big game hehind the scene... "Жизнь - это смертельная болезнь, передающаяся половым путем" - Виктория Токарева

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you obviously do not know much about the sport of chess. Ok, I'll make it easier for you. Can you name someone who is stupid that is in top 1000? (for reference purposes, you can obtain the top 1000, or even top 20,000 list by going to www.fide.com) IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Truisms: He who laughs last, thinks slowest. A day without sunshine is like, well, night. When you go into court, you are putting yourself in the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

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"Жизнь - это смертельная болезнь, передающаяся половым путем" - Виктория Токарева

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- Доктор, я жить буду?

- А смысл ?

VIV

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Originally posted by Viktory L: II, it is obvious to me, you want to have fight with somebody ) Not me, sorry.

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Victory, you entered into a debate and posted what seemed to me like a counter-argument against some evidence I used within this debate. It is only fair that I respond to this, and discredit your counter-argument if I can do so, and which I have done. If I had been rude to you in doing so, then you could say that I tried to have a fight with you. However, I did not insult you or even write to you in an insulting type of tone. Therefore, either you can just normally respond to my responses to your post, or you can drop it if you do not wish to continue. But please do not begin childish games with accusations or finger-pointing about who starts fights, etc.

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I'm curious of YOUR definitions stupid person and smart person. Note: ONE person, not the whole race.

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Well, there are different ways to come up with a systematic approach to determining one's intelligence. Several different methods have been presented, and Libra even summarized them in one of his posts:

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Ok, people, now we have three metrics of being "smart". 1. IQ tests (Alex) 2. College grades (Alex) 3. Number of patents (JM)

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I don't agree with #3, and I don't even know how Libra came up with this to add to his summary, but if we were to take both #1 and #2 and applied them to mass population of blacks and whites, or asian, etc., then blacks would still score the lowest on any of these. A number of other methods can be used, all of which surely will lead to the same results as the two listed above. In regard to your post, where you noted, "Note: ONE person, not the whole race.", I will have to kindly remind you that this topic is about the entire black population, in particular in the US. Alex, for instance, has already acknowledged in one of his posts that there are certainly individual blacks who are intelligent and successful - but they are a small exception to the rest of their kind. This point wasn't argued by anyone and we moved on. Please do not try to pull this topic into how to judge an individual's intelligence - this is not the centerpiece of this discussion. IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Truisms: He who laughs last, thinks slowest. A day without sunshine is like, well, night. When you go into court, you are putting yourself in the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

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If somebody refuses to give definitions of what he/she is looking for, how can we point out that object? "Жизнь - это смертельная болезнь, передающаяся половым путем" - Виктория Токарева

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- Доктор, я жить буду?

- А смысл ?

VIV

Well, Egypt has nothing to do with african-americans, but Nubian Empire and Shaka Empire in Suthern Africa do. We can also argue how black ethiopians are and they had their Empire and dominated Persian Gulf area... So, African continent did nad it's own empires besides Eqypt. They were destroyed by Egypt first, than came whites..... Me - I don't think black are stupider than whites. I have neighbors and friends and my kids coach were black. Normal, smart people. But there are some cultural elements in black communities that hold them back and they need to work on them. Starting with the family.... I don't think they are inately stupider either. I think it is a lack of sensory stimulation at an early age and a lack of interaction with intelligent people at an early age as well. There is also a denigration of intellect in the street culture which prevents them from succeeding. I anticipated the Zulu argument as well as the Nubian empire. The Nubian empire was assimilated into the Egyptian one and was a forerunner of the Egyptian one, as the Etruscans were forerunners of the Romans and the Scythians the predecessors of the Celts and Slavs. Only the Nubians had a written language. The Ethiopians were conquered by Rome, Assyria, Greece, and Eqypt, which no doubt had a positive impact on their level of civilization. However, they remain in the iron age for the most part to this day. The Zulus didn't have a written language and were about as advanced as the Huns or other bronze age or early iron age tribes. There were several relatively advanced civilizations in Saharan Africa- the Sudanese, the Ethiopians, the Somalis, but these groups also look down on sub-Saharan Africans themselves, even today as being backwards. I attribute the problem mostly to historically poor leadership and no secure property rights. Consider how backward Russia became towards the end of Ivan Grozny's reign, once all the noblemen were dead and the peasants had abandoned the land. Peasants in Russia were more backwards under Stalin after 20 years of Communism than they were under the Czar. However, the lack of AA advancement universally makes it tempting to draw the negative conclusion on native intelligence. As far as metrics for intelligence are concerned- number of books published would be another one as well as scientific papers published. Another might be the number of languages books published by that people are translated into would also be a metric- i.e Russian authors translated into English. Another would be the number of engineers and scientists that the society produces. America itself would score low in that metric we couldn't "steal" them from other countries.

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Consider how backward Russia became towards the end of Ivan Grozny's reign, once all the noblemen were dead and the peasants had abandoned the land. It wasn't backward at all. It was different from Europe, but not backward. Peasants in Russia were more backwards under Stalin after 20 years of Communism than they were under the Czar. No they weren't. During czar they were almost 100% illiterate, after 20 years of comminizm almost 90% of peazans could read/write. New technical and humanitarian elita was created and most of them came from peazants. "Проще" я не стану, даже если люди перестанут ко мне тянуться

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

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Originally posted by Lye: II - "blacks comprise 12% of US population. But they commit over 50% of violent crime in the US." Evgeny - "The U.S. Justice Department has reported that 85% of all inter-racial violence in America is committed by blacks against whites." Evgeny, your quote has references, referring to other references that you didn't even check - amazing.

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Lye, I have posted that article to give people an example that there is such think called black racism – it is relevant to the topic and that’s why I’ve done it. The media often ignores to report crimes committed by blacks against whites, yet when a white policeman tries to apprehend a black person using force you see it immediately on the news portrayed as white racism. I just don’t think it is fare in terms of honest and unbiased reporting on what’s going on in our society. Have you heard about Wichita massacre or any other racial crimes committed by black racists? Or you prefer to formulate you opinion on that subject based on recent Hollywood movies you saw? Lye, if I wanted to give any statistical data on the subject I sure would find the original sources. Why is it you think that 85% is inaccurate number. David Horowitz is very well known journalist, and believe me, Lye, if he lied, he would’ve been in jail now. The race issue is pretty explosive subject to talk about in this country, especially if you are white. Now, call me stupid but for the love of God why do you think that the numbers given by II and by me citing Horowitz’ article are incorrect? You have inserted a link of Bureau of Justice Statistics that you haven’t even looked at. It’s all there: over the past twenty five years blacks are accountable for approximately 50% of all crimes. Blacks comprise approximately 12% of population, so if you check data on blacks killed by whites versus whites killed by black carefully and make calculation then you should come up with 85% (this is actually known fact, it just something that nobody likes to talk about). Blacks kill more white people than whites – that’s a pure and undisputable fact based on numbers, not on those pictures you briefly saw on the website and not on those heartbreaking stories from Hollywood. ----------------- Edit note from me: I haven’t read all posts carefully and missed a little debate between Viktory L and II discussing chess. I think my first sentence in this post was a bit repetitious to one of II’s and that’s why I decided to remove it. Sorry. Evgeny :)

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