I am not saying I am worried about hell, just that you cannot ever expect the unexpected, there is nothing you can do about that. It's not really secular humanism, it's just kind of related (I just read about what secular humanism is after you said it). And yeah, maybe I am too confident sometimes.

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BTW, Yeah, I do think that under normal circumstances first date is way too early to be having sex.

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It's all in the eyes of the beholder. Another words, your hell is someone else's heaven.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Stas: well, isn't it the CHURCH that tells people: sex = sin, premarital sex = double the sin, contraception is gainst God's will, abortion equals murder, blah balh blah ? i could go on, but we don't really want such topics here, do we ?

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You are referring to Catholicism. Protestant church does not teach that sex is bad or contraceptives are bad. Protestant church teaches that premarital sex is a sin. The old testament agrees with this. Protestant church does not teach that all sex is bad. Read Song of Solomon. Protestant church does not teach that contraceptions is bad. They do teach that abortion is bad, however. Most verses they will quote you to support this belief comes from the old testament.

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Stas, zaika.. seriously, it's time to read up on the Old Testament and the Song of Solomon..! Let's get with the program here..

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Zaika is reloading his UZI....... IntensityInsanity, i guess u are right, in fact neither Catholic nor Protestant clergy does not mind sex at all....here is a link (sounds like it's written today, but no, 12 years ago): http://www.ffrf.org/articles/1990study.html

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By the way Stas, I hope I didn't come across as rude or anything. I just wanted to clarify what you wrote. No flame or disrespect toward you intended. Peace

quote:

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Originally posted by Stas: Zaika is reloading his UZI....... IntensityInsanity, i guess u are right, in fact neither Catholic nor Protestant clergy does not mind sex at all....here is a link (sounds like it's written today, but no, 12 years ago): http://www.ffrf.org/articles/1990study.html

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Hmmm... Stas, the article only talks about the molestation statistics in Catholic and Protestant clergies, there is not a single word in it about religious justification of having sex. This article has nothing to do with the issue being discussed here, unless it is a joke :))) A funny one :)

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II, it's quite hard to offend me, don't worry, as for discussing religious stuff - we better refrain from that ..... Alex, more i read your posts more i believe u really need a Moderator status...

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Stas, I appreciate your subtle sense of humor, but there is no need to make personal statements here. If you notice, I never posted any personal statements about you man, so I'd appreciate if you did the same.

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Alex, firstly u can and even should post personal statements in my adress if u think i deserve any, let the evil be punished, secondly i don't know why my "subtle sence of humour" bugs u, but anyway i'm sorry and stuff...

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I never expected that such an innocent question could generate such a heated discussion. By the way the original topic is “what is allowed on the first date?” and despite the fact that most of the posts are way off-topic, some of the expressed ideas are pretty impressive (i.e. Elena’s). Unfortunately, when it comes to religion, there are only two good things that came out of it for me: music and architecture. All religions have been created by men. Also, in the history of mankind, only fascists and Christians have burned people and books. The more I’ve studied religion and history of bible the more disappointed I got. Interestingly, studying biology made me wander about God a lot more than bible. Anyway, back to the topic. Personally, when I go on a date I do NOT expect ANYTHING from her. I expect to have a great time together and I don’t care if it’s going to end with a “Good Bye”, a hug, a kiss or a “Good Morning”. I just like life, fun and people (especially girls – they are so wonderful). Why would anyone stress out about thinking “What’s allowed” – just enjoy it! The objective of the date is an attraction and fun. Everything else will happen anyway if you like each other. The idea is to find the one you’d be absolutely obsessed about. I hate having sex while thinking about someone else; I’d rather make love to the one I am crazy about. It makes things a lot easier and much more enjoyable. Also, as a guy, I really don’t care “what’s allowed”, there are no standards. So, I suggest doing whatever you feel like. Just take it slowly. If you see/feel something you like, just go for it. If it’s not Ok – they will let you know. If you don’t take a chance – you don’t have a chance. Sometimes you need to try it a couple of times (don’t push it), girls like playing a “no, no “ game. :) Tell me if I am wrong.

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umm.. Tolik.. cheto ya ne vrubilas'.. you don't expect anything from a date, but you do "try it a couple of times..".. And why do you try it a couple of times, if she says 'no' the 1st time around? If you're not expecting anything, pervogo 'net' doljno bit' dostatochno...

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Urra, moi topic eshe zhivooooi... Zhivuchij kakoi :) Kak davno eto vse bylo i nepravda, eeh...

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[i}. Also, in the history of mankind, only fascists and Christians have burned people and books. [/i] You need to read some more on history of islam, buddizm and other asian religions. Trust me, christianity is not the bloodiest of them all......

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....