One quick observation… (May be things in Atlanta are different). During the last decade many people from former Soviet Union came to United States either to study or to live here. Soon after their arrival they started criticizing this country and its people. This really pisses me off!! Have you guys noticed this too? "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- The Friends of Voltaire, 1906

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Originally posted by TAP3AH: One quick observation… (May be things in Atlanta are different). During the last decade many people from former Soviet Union came to United States either to study or to live here. Soon after their arrival they started criticizing this country and its people. This really pisses me off!! Have you guys noticed this too? "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -- The Friends of Voltaire, 1906

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Yes, Tarzan, I have noticed this too. It is not right. Yes, there are things about this country I complain about (like food) but I still acknowledge that this is a wonderful country that has given opportunities for many people of all races and nationalities. "Computer dating is fine, if you're a computer." - Rita May Brown. II

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It is all comming from popular russian belief that amricans are all dumb and a russian is much smarter My mom is that way too Luck of knowledge - that's the problem "..чем дальше в лес, тем страшнее..."

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

So if you live in the country you are barred from seeing its negative traits? What about the majority of emigrants hating the country they were born in? Or does the bar only apply to the country you immigrated to? In fact the objective approach would be seeing both positive and negative traits in both countries - homeland and the new destination. Unfortunately it can be rarely seen in russian immigrants who paint everything in black and white. Those thinking they came from hell to heaven are misleading themselves.

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most of us (and our families) came from hell (otherwise people would not leave the country of their birth) to give ourself and our children a better life... this country is not heaven... but it's much better place to live then most of the other places.... lyosha http://www.mindspring.com/~snake76 ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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lyosha
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What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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Originally posted by snake: most of us (and our families) came from hell (otherwise people would not leave the country of their birth) to give ourself and our children a better life... this country is not heaven... but it's much better place to live then most of the other places....

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"Computer dating is fine, if you're a computer." - Rita May Brown. II

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People leave home for thousand reasons. Some think it is "hell" as you say. But it is by far not the most popular reason. Most people go for better economical conditions (better paying job which comes with possibilities to travel, to have a good car etc), and it is understanding. Should the US have had poor economy very few people would emigrate no matter how "hell" their home is, and you have to admit that. Besides, not everyone left for good. Many people just study here or came to work on H1B. Anyway I haven't seen a clarification on why one is not permitted to critisize whatever he wants if he doesn't like it. None of my questions have been answered. What TARZAN suggests is a purely communistic approach (the only "official" point of view is allowed, otherwise you are an enemy). I truly believe that a person having common sense can not like everything anywhere, as well as he can not dislike everything anywhere, as both of these views would be immature. I actually better like a positive attitude: you can appreciate good sides of other countries but you can always come back home. I personally think that Russia is also a much better place to live than most other places, and it has one advantage compared to all other places: it is our home. So there is no reason to get mad, just let everyone think whatever they want even if you disagree (hey TARZAN, if you remembered your signature, you would not start this topic in first place). Still I would like to have my questions answered rather than see people clinging about wording ("hell" or not "hell"). Get some abstraction, think about it like this: there are two countries - A and B. Someone moved from A to B and found that not everything in B is what he enjoys. So why should he be discouraged to critisize B? Why is he expected to hate A? Why should A and B be treated differently? What would be a situation when the one would unconditionally like B and see absolutely no problems in it (or similarly A)? The answer to the last question is if lobothomy has been performed on him. So guys please don't try to start another 17 page discussion, don't take words out of context, avoid flame as I am avoiding it, simply answer my questions in short. I am curious to understand your attitude.

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there is nothing wrong to critisize... on contrary... that is what freedome is all about - be able to disagree with the majority and not bee punish for that... i beleive that this coutry (usa) provides a better place for this kind of freedom lyosha http://www.mindspring.com/~snake76 ****************** What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

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lyosha
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What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

Sure, let me clarify this… My first problem is with the fact that criticism comes “Soon after arrival…” (from my original post) and let me explain why. As KGBMan well pointed out, luck of knowledge is one of the problems. People who haven’t lived in this country enough to learn about its people and their cultures can’t have intelligent opinion and therefore, should just shut up. I do think that nothing is wrong with healthy and productive criticism but only after one will learn enough about country (doesn’t meter A, B, or C). My second problem is with the fact that by hating (yes, I’ve met quite a few who say they hate it) this country and its people they still come here and benefit from it (I think it is normally called hypocrisy). And last point… Polite guest whenever he/she comes to your house will not criticize your furniture or choice of window treatments (polite guest and not а жлоб).

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refugees only have benefits from this country. anybody else must work hard.... so, Tarzan is against jews... hm...

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Originally posted by Panam: refugees only have benefits from this country. anybody else must work hard.... so, Tarzan is against jews... hm...

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huh??? Panam, have you been drinking again? "Computer dating is fine, if you're a computer." - Rita May Brown. II

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no, why?

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Viva Independent Thought! Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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Originally posted by Panam: refugees only have benefits from this country. anybody else must work hard.... so, Tarzan is against jews... hm...

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Panam, I stopped following your “logic” long time ago… For Your Information: anyone who lives in this country benefits from it.

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Originally posted by TAP3AH: Panam, I stopped following your “logic” long time ago… For Your Information: anyone who lives in this country benefits from it.

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heh, it is easy if you try.... so you were talking about "benefits" in general.... Not about food stamps, free apartments, etc ? "God blessed America" then.

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