... well.... the title is long but the post is gonna be short and open for discussion. First, the reference: Ryner, et al, Cell, 87, 1079 (1996) What these dudes have discovered is quite amusing. ...remember the fruit flies? They usually engage in a "courtship dance" before they mate. The sequience is: the male follows the female; uses his legs to tap her body, produces a "song" by vibrating his wings, then licks her genitala, curls his abdomen, and tries to mate with her. The guys above, identified a single gene that can change this behaviour. By altering that gene they produced male fruit flies that performed this courtship dance (yeah..yeah...with the licking!) for other males. Moreover, when a group of males with this gene were together, they lined up in a long chain, so that each male was both being courted by and courting other males.... The gene that produces this behaviour affects only 500 of the 100,000 neurons in the insects head..... I also remember reading about something similar in humans... there exists a region in hypothalamus, which is much larger in straight males than in women... and in women that part has approximately same size as in homosexual men..... anyways, how would the conservatives reply to those results?

How would conservatives reply..... Christian: Them flies are all damned to hellfire & brimstone... This is the devil's fruit fly!!! The evil-doer of science has created something that is unnatural....Sinners Burn!!!!!!!!!!!! Muslim: At least they don't eat shelfish! All of those evil Western corrupted Great Satan fruit flies must go to a certain cliff (sorry forgot which one) & cast themselves off.... No honey, no dates & no 72 virgin fruit flies for them!!!! Very interesting post. That courtship seems quite different than dinner & a movie..... Anais "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anais Nin

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Hm, I didn't know Anais was a conservative Since neither am I, I don't know the answer, but want to comment on the subject. If I remember biology class insects find the mate by smell (feromones and stuff), so if those dudes found the gene that was responsible for feromone production, it explains the whole thing If somebody can make a chair smell like fruit flie - fly will dance with it. I don't think human homosexuality can be explained that way. We also depend on feromons and other chemicals in finding the mate, but not to that extend, we have a brain after all (well most of us) Anyhow, I think homosexuality is mostly a social/behaviour related deviation. Especialy now, since it is being PR-ed everywhere in the media. "Dear God, please safe us from those who believes in you" (writen on a fence in NY after 9.11)

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

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Originally posted by pomidorchik: anyways, how would the conservatives reply to those results?

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Pomidorchik, what kind of reply are you expecting? This is not about right versus left. If you are trying to create a parallel and compare humans-fruit-cakes and insects-fruit-flies then I can only laugh at it because I am 100% with KGBMan on this one. All people have brains to control their action and most of them not afraid to use them. Also, let me ask you something - if that study suggests that homosexuality is a mutation or an illness then we have to find a treatment for it, right?

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TARZAN: God created homosexuals. And if you go against them, you are a sinner..cuz you are going against God. Do you agree?

....in fact...since the Bible was written by people... (the sinners, that is) it is of little value to those who believe in God....

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Originally posted by pomidorchik: TARZAN: God created homosexuals. And if you go against them, you are a sinner..cuz you are going against God. Do you agree?

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Pom, I like you - you have a dynamic and creative mind. Let’s use it in order to review your post…

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Originally posted by pomidorchik: God created homosexuals.

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As far as I know, God created Adam and Eve... (Am I right?)

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Originally posted by pomidorchik: ...if you go against them, you are a sinner..cuz you are going against God.

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Why do we need to go against them? I don’t have a problem with gays - I have a problem with a huge PR campaign that main stream media have created for them... But let's go back to that study! What are the conclusions? Is Homosexuality a sickness or what?

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....hmmm.. i don't see a word about it being a sickness.... just a research: Copyright ©2002 Cell Press. All rights reserved. Cell, Vol 87, 1079-1089, 13 December 1996 Control of Male Sexual Behavior and Sexual Orientation in Drosophila by the fruitless Gene Lisa C. Ryner 1, Stephen F. Goodwin 2, Diego H. Castrillon 3, Anuranjan Anand 1, Adriana Villella 2, Bruce S. Baker 1*, Jeffrey C. Hall 2, Barbara J. Taylor 4, and Steven A. Wasserman 3 1Department of Biological Sciences, Stanford University, Stanford, California 94305, USA 2Department of Biology, Brandeis University, Waltham, Massachusetts 02254, USA 3Department of Molecular Biology and Oncology, University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, Dallas, Texas 75235, USA 4Department of Zoology, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Oregon 97331, USA Correspondence: Bruce S. Baker 415 725 1843 (phone) 415 723 6035 (fax) bbaker@cmgm.stanford.edu Sexual orientation and courtship behavior in Drosophila are regulated by fruitless (fru), the first gene in a branch of the sex-determination hierarchy functioning specifically in the central nervous system (CNS). The phenotypes of new fru mutants encompass nearly all aspects of male sexual behavior. Alternative splicing of fru transcripts produces sex-specific proteins belonging to the BTB-ZF family of transcriptional regulators. The sex-specific fru products are produced in only about 500 of the 105 neurons that comprise the CNS. The properties of neurons expressing these fru products suggest that fru specifies the fates or activities of neurons that carry out higher order control functions to elicit and coordinate the activities comprising male courtship behavior. what would you call sickness? deviation from norm? but then any mutation would be a sickness...which is the basis of evolution (if you believe in it, of course..)

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Originally posted by pomidorchik: ....hmmm.. i don't see a word about it being a sickness.... what would you call sickness? deviation from norm? but then any mutation would be a sickness...which is the basis of evolution (if you believe in it, of course..)

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You know, this is interesting that you’ve mentioned it because I think we can start even broader discussion here! Does the mutation which leads to homosexuality should be considered as evolutionary or devolutionary (since gays can’t procreate human race will become extinct)?

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Хе-хе, как интересно - Дарвинизм тут вполне сошелся с Библией, редкое явление. Конечно гомосек работает против эволюции, "это же элементарно, Ватсон".

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Pom TARZAN: God created homosexuals. And if you go against them, you are a sinner..cuz you are going against God. Do you agree? It supposed to be like that - God created the prototypes and "matrix" for a mass production . As with any production, templates wearout from time to time producing deviation in quality... so homo is that kind of deviation But Tarzan and andom are right. It is a bad mutation. Тупиковая.

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....

Ага. Вот чем мне нравится Дарвинизм - тем, что дает ответы четкие и ясные. Мало споров и это не плохо

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Guys, the problems I see are that not all of gays are the “genetic gays” - many of them are “into” a homosexuality because of its lifestyle with our media, various TV shows, and number of “human rights” organizations glorifying and promoting that lifestyle… "Девиз феминисток: Яйца курицу не учат!"

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Originally posted by TAP3AH: Guys, the problems I see are that not all of gays are the “genetic gays” - many of them are “into” a homosexuality because of its lifestyle with our media, various TV shows, and number of “human rights” organizations glorifying and promoting that lifestyle… "Девиз феминисток: Яйца курицу не учат!"

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Да, вот это вот проблема. Я недавно видел на другом форуме, там один мужик сказал "мне по х.. чем там занимаются пидорасы, но мне не нравится что они громко кричат и агитируют всех делать как они".

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Yep, that's the problem alright. The fall of Roman Empire started the same way.... they started to like boys en mass "Dear God, please safe us from those who believes in you" (writen on a fence in NY after 9.11)

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- Независимость - это когда в 20-й раз наступаешь на одни и те же грабли, а русские уже ни при чем....